From venture37 at geeklan.co.uk Thu Aug 4 10:41:49 2016 From: venture37 at geeklan.co.uk (Sevan Janiyan) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:41:49 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] August London *BSD meetup In-Reply-To: <20160726203837.GZ1569@netinertia.co.uk> References: <20160726203837.GZ1569@netinertia.co.uk> Message-ID: On 26/07/2016 21:38, James O'Gorman wrote: > Getting a table would be good so people can order food. Table is booked. Sevane From venture37 at geeklan.co.uk Fri Aug 5 14:29:35 2016 From: venture37 at geeklan.co.uk (Sevan Janiyan) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:29:35 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] Notes from yesterdays London meeting 4/8/16 Message-ID: <994111d8-cdf3-62d2-55cd-f310f1e35b6e@geeklan.co.uk> IBM - not so bad in some places, not the leader it once was though Microsoft Retail trying to be all Apple-like Performance at Microsott Retail doesn't go as planned http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/machine-gun-kelly-rapper-microsoft-video_n_1932879.html Use of assembly in rspamd to work around compiler miss-optimisation Running rspamd on MIPS & ARM hardware when codebase targetted at x86 currently DJB's boringcc proposal https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/boring-crypto/48qa1kWignU/o8GGp2K1DAAJ Being bitten by the assumption around the value of BUFSIZ on different operating systems Adding a swap file to FreeBSD/arm running on a PI brings the system down cat.c in GNU coreutils http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=blob_plain;f=src/cat.c;hb=1c17f61ef993a5ee5fb0d3bc47b7b25782ae386c The levels of indirection in GNU cat.c FreeBSD cat(1) has socket support When will Microsoft die? - apparently after Windows 7 support has ended & people are forced to upgrade to 10 or newer Windows 10 has a Linux env without systemd https://twitter.com/karinjiri/status/760686492490592256 Lurkers on mailing list IBM XLC produces warnings instead of errors resulting in many autoconf tests passing untentionally Changes upcoming on OpenBSD 6.0 New/extended platforms: vax: removed Fuzzing bpfjit with AFL on NetBSD Corporate hierarcy and pointing out erorrs in the CTO's code Automatic kickback response to a change request setlocale() & and the LC_* variables, where's the documentation? Terse and vague documentation on the opengroup site Voluntary & involuntary context switching Optimising for the reduction of involuntary context switching but ending up with a process which takes far longer everywhere & only reduces context switching on modern systems Systems architecture and the impact on performance eg excessively high involuntary context switches on a PI when doing disk I/O on SD card Methods for examining memory layout NetBSD W^X cleanup https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoyXhGIWcAAbHNc.jpg:orig Performance issues with AVX may have been addressed in Skylake Intel has a lot of legacy Multithreaded garbage collectors are hard testing changes related to disk i/o and forgetting that ZFS prefetches if it detects sequential reads Holding a BSD hack day ala London.PM Detrimental hierarcy http://www.salon.com/2013/07/10/cnn_asks_if_koreas_hierarchical_culture_caused_crash/ Excessive drinking and corporate culture eg initiations Natural tendency to establish structures & hierarchy before something has even set in motion That time there was a 16 person turnout at the Cambridge meeting Cambridge life vs London life London Polution GCC vs clang Silly dependencies - system installed with GCC 4.9 on Debian, installing the Linux kernel sources automatically tries to downgrade the compiler to GCC 4.8 The ability to generalise about dependencies in a packaging system eg I need a editor Explicing depencies on conflicting variants of a package to the detriment of the user, resorting to mixing packages & ports as a workaround OS X is painful Yubikey support in the BSDs Yubikey fido - the dongle that's dongled to your browser (chrome or FF) login_yubikey(8) in OpenBSD From jeff at jeff.net Fri Aug 5 14:36:29 2016 From: jeff at jeff.net (Jeff LaCoursiere) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:36:29 -0400 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] Notes from yesterdays London meeting 4/8/16 In-Reply-To: <994111d8-cdf3-62d2-55cd-f310f1e35b6e@geeklan.co.uk> References: <994111d8-cdf3-62d2-55cd-f310f1e35b6e@geeklan.co.uk> Message-ID: <57A4965D.4010200@jeff.net> I don't see how you guys can get through all these topics in a single evening. Must be a lot of beer. j On 08/05/2016 09:29 AM, Sevan Janiyan wrote: > IBM - not so bad in some places, not the leader it once was though > Microsoft Retail trying to be all Apple-like > Performance at Microsott Retail doesn't go as planned > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/machine-gun-kelly-rapper-microsoft-video_n_1932879.html > Use of assembly in rspamd to work around compiler miss-optimisation > Running rspamd on MIPS & ARM hardware when codebase targetted at x86 > currently > DJB's boringcc proposal > https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/boring-crypto/48qa1kWignU/o8GGp2K1DAAJ > Being bitten by the assumption around the value of BUFSIZ on different > operating systems > Adding a swap file to FreeBSD/arm running on a PI brings the system down > cat.c in GNU coreutils > http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=coreutils.git;a=blob_plain;f=src/cat.c;hb=1c17f61ef993a5ee5fb0d3bc47b7b25782ae386c > The levels of indirection in GNU cat.c > FreeBSD cat(1) has socket support > When will Microsoft die? - apparently after Windows 7 support has ended > & people are forced to upgrade to 10 or newer > Windows 10 has a Linux env without systemd > https://twitter.com/karinjiri/status/760686492490592256 > Lurkers on mailing list > IBM XLC produces warnings instead of errors resulting in many autoconf > tests passing untentionally > Changes upcoming on OpenBSD 6.0 > New/extended platforms: vax: removed > Fuzzing bpfjit with AFL on NetBSD > Corporate hierarcy and pointing out erorrs in the CTO's code > Automatic kickback response to a change request > setlocale() & and the LC_* variables, where's the documentation? > Terse and vague documentation on the opengroup site > Voluntary & involuntary context switching > Optimising for the reduction of involuntary context switching but ending > up with a process which takes far longer everywhere & only reduces > context switching on modern systems > Systems architecture and the impact on performance eg excessively high > involuntary context switches on a PI when doing disk I/O on SD card > Methods for examining memory layout > NetBSD W^X cleanup https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoyXhGIWcAAbHNc.jpg:orig > Performance issues with AVX may have been addressed in Skylake > Intel has a lot of legacy > Multithreaded garbage collectors are hard > testing changes related to disk i/o and forgetting that ZFS prefetches > if it detects sequential reads > Holding a BSD hack day ala London.PM > Detrimental hierarcy > http://www.salon.com/2013/07/10/cnn_asks_if_koreas_hierarchical_culture_caused_crash/ > Excessive drinking and corporate culture eg initiations > Natural tendency to establish structures & hierarchy before something > has even set in motion > That time there was a 16 person turnout at the Cambridge meeting > Cambridge life vs London life > London Polution > GCC vs clang > Silly dependencies - system installed with GCC 4.9 on Debian, installing > the Linux kernel sources automatically tries to downgrade the compiler > to GCC 4.8 > The ability to generalise about dependencies in a packaging system eg I > need a editor > Explicing depencies on conflicting variants of a package to the > detriment of the user, resorting to mixing packages & ports as a workaround > OS X is painful > Yubikey support in the BSDs > Yubikey fido - the dongle that's dongled to your browser (chrome or FF) > login_yubikey(8) in OpenBSD > _______________________________________________ > Ukfreebsd mailing list > Ukfreebsd at uk.freebsd.org > http://mailman.uk.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ukfreebsd > UK BSD Groups http://www.bsdgroups.org.uk > Hosted by EXOnetric http://www.exonetric.net -- Jeff LaCoursiere 312 962 5250 desk 815 546 6599 cell From venture37 at geeklan.co.uk Fri Aug 5 14:53:28 2016 From: venture37 at geeklan.co.uk (Sevan Janiyan) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 14:53:28 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] Notes from yesterdays London meeting 4/8/16 In-Reply-To: <57A4965D.4010200@jeff.net> References: <994111d8-cdf3-62d2-55cd-f310f1e35b6e@geeklan.co.uk> <57A4965D.4010200@jeff.net> Message-ID: <42aab02d-5688-2bf2-cad4-379a5decb1a2@geeklan.co.uk> On 05/08/2016 14:36, Jeff LaCoursiere wrote: > I don't see how you guys can get through all these topics in a single > evening. Must be a lot of beer. Come along to the next meeting :) Sevan From paul.g.webster at googlemail.com Fri Aug 5 15:10:50 2016 From: paul.g.webster at googlemail.com (Paul Webster) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:10:50 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] Notes from yesterdays London meeting 4/8/16 In-Reply-To: <42aab02d-5688-2bf2-cad4-379a5decb1a2@geeklan.co.uk> References: <994111d8-cdf3-62d2-55cd-f310f1e35b6e@geeklan.co.uk> <57A4965D.4010200@jeff.net> <42aab02d-5688-2bf2-cad4-379a5decb1a2@geeklan.co.uk> Message-ID: This was before the beer, no one remembers what happened after it :) On 5 August 2016 at 14:53, Sevan Janiyan wrote: > > > On 05/08/2016 14:36, Jeff LaCoursiere wrote: > > I don't see how you guys can get through all these topics in a single > > evening. Must be a lot of beer. > > Come along to the next meeting :) > > > Sevan > _______________________________________________ > Ukfreebsd mailing list > Ukfreebsd at uk.freebsd.org > http://mailman.uk.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ukfreebsd > UK BSD Groups http://www.bsdgroups.org.uk > Hosted by EXOnetric http://www.exonetric.net > From jeff at jeff.net Fri Aug 5 16:25:29 2016 From: jeff at jeff.net (Jeff LaCoursiere) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 11:25:29 -0400 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] Notes from yesterdays London meeting 4/8/16 In-Reply-To: References: <994111d8-cdf3-62d2-55cd-f310f1e35b6e@geeklan.co.uk> <57A4965D.4010200@jeff.net> <42aab02d-5688-2bf2-cad4-379a5decb1a2@geeklan.co.uk> Message-ID: <57A4AFE9.2020005@jeff.net> Oh, I am definitely in the next time I make it to London. Sadly that has been over ten years :( In Chicago these days... j On 08/05/2016 10:10 AM, Paul Webster wrote: > This was before the beer, no one remembers what happened after it :) > > On 5 August 2016 at 14:53, Sevan Janiyan wrote: > >> >> On 05/08/2016 14:36, Jeff LaCoursiere wrote: >>> I don't see how you guys can get through all these topics in a single >>> evening. Must be a lot of beer. >> Come along to the next meeting :) >> >> >> Sevan >> _______________________________________________ >> Ukfreebsd mailing list >> Ukfreebsd at uk.freebsd.org >> http://mailman.uk.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ukfreebsd >> UK BSD Groups http://www.bsdgroups.org.uk >> Hosted by EXOnetric http://www.exonetric.net >> > _______________________________________________ > Ukfreebsd mailing list > Ukfreebsd at uk.freebsd.org > http://mailman.uk.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ukfreebsd > UK BSD Groups http://www.bsdgroups.org.uk > Hosted by EXOnetric http://www.exonetric.net -- Jeff LaCoursiere 312 962 5250 desk 815 546 6599 cell From venture37 at geeklan.co.uk Fri Aug 19 13:41:39 2016 From: venture37 at geeklan.co.uk (Sevan Janiyan) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 13:41:39 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] *BSD hack day - 20/08/16 Message-ID: <58a01b40-eb0a-e095-cf62-0b9eb2c06aa8@geeklan.co.uk> Hello, At very short notice, myself & Alex (alnsn AT NetBSD) are getting together at the London Hack Space[1] to work through some things tomorrow. Would anyone else care to join? there's no set time on when we're going to finish but we should be starting around 12 o'clock. Some of the things we thought we might look at are: general pkgsrc work lua packages in pkgsrc false hangs reported by AFL on FreeBSD but not NetBSD kqueue support in Postgresql But the general idea is to get people together and hang out whilst generating bug reports or commits. :) This was inspired by the London Perl Mongers who have long been holding a hack day event at the space with success. I will give advanced notice for the next one but if you're around tomorrow & looking for somewhere to hang out, see you at the space ;) Sevan [1] https://london.hackspace.org.uk/ From steve.mynott at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 18:01:18 2016 From: steve.mynott at gmail.com (Steve Mynott) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:01:18 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] *BSD hack day - 20/08/16 In-Reply-To: <58a01b40-eb0a-e095-cf62-0b9eb2c06aa8@geeklan.co.uk> References: <58a01b40-eb0a-e095-cf62-0b9eb2c06aa8@geeklan.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Sevan, I can't make it to the Hackspace physically but might be interested in attending virtually if you guys are going to be on an IRC channel. Cheers Steve On 19 August 2016 at 13:41, Sevan Janiyan wrote: > Hello, > At very short notice, myself & Alex (alnsn AT NetBSD) are getting > together at the London Hack Space[1] to work through some things tomorrow. > Would anyone else care to join? there's no set time on when we're going > to finish but we should be starting around 12 o'clock. > > Some of the things we thought we might look at are: > general pkgsrc work > lua packages in pkgsrc > false hangs reported by AFL on FreeBSD but not NetBSD > kqueue support in Postgresql > > But the general idea is to get people together and hang out whilst > generating bug reports or commits. :) > > This was inspired by the London Perl Mongers who have long been holding > a hack day event at the space with success. > > I will give advanced notice for the next one but if you're around > tomorrow & looking for somewhere to hang out, see you at the space ;) > > > Sevan > [1] https://london.hackspace.org.uk/ > _______________________________________________ > Ukfreebsd mailing list > Ukfreebsd at uk.freebsd.org > http://mailman.uk.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ukfreebsd > UK BSD Groups http://www.bsdgroups.org.uk > Hosted by EXOnetric http://www.exonetric.net -- 4096R/EA75174B Steve Mynott From venture37 at geeklan.co.uk Sat Aug 20 11:05:43 2016 From: venture37 at geeklan.co.uk (Sevan Janiyan) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:05:43 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] *BSD hack day - 20/08/16 In-Reply-To: References: <58a01b40-eb0a-e095-cf62-0b9eb2c06aa8@geeklan.co.uk> Message-ID: On 19/08/2016 18:01, Steve Mynott wrote: > Hi Sevan, > > I can't make it to the Hackspace physically but might be interested in > attending virtually if you guys are going to be on an IRC channel. > > Cheers Steve Sure, #bsdhackday on oftc. Sevan From venture37 at geeklan.co.uk Mon Aug 22 17:54:56 2016 From: venture37 at geeklan.co.uk (Sevan Janiyan) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:54:56 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] Report from last *BSD hack day Message-ID: <619ae198-4e87-8486-b250-9e1fbd06e114@geeklan.co.uk> We started with a double helping of yaks, Alex looked into packaging ssh-chat[1] in pkgsrc but found missing dependencies which also need packaging. ICU is currently broken on systems without a C++11 compiler[2] which affects building on PowerPC Macs and currently causes major package breakage[3], we started look at the possibility of working around the changes in the current ICU release so that it could be built with an older toolchain. "Is a friend of my friend my friend?" - Alex Alex knows about C++ and explained that the ICU code is having friend issues. Trying to help me understand the problem we referenced an old version of the C++ book (second edition?) but it didn't explain much, the draft std was also vague beyond stating that it wasn't transitive or explicit. We moved on and started adding intermediate functions to reference functions nested levels below to work around the relationships but after working around 3 such problems, it appeared that more may be present. We took a break for lunch at this point. After lunch we looked into lua modules in pkgsrc, there are many modules in the tree and quite a few are broken on legacy OS X. One of the main issues is the inconsistent build method used by the module developers, of the three modules we looked at, each had a different problem related to build infrastructure. databases/lua-tokyocabinet only had the partial set of flags (specified in its Makefile) needed to generate shared objects with Apple's linker, addition of -undefined dynamic_lookup resolved this issue. devel/lua-BitOp turned out to have a separate target for building on Mac OS X with relevant flags such as -dynamiclib and -undefined dynamic_lookup, making sure said target is called when building on Mac OS X resolved the issue. devel/lua-filesystem breakage was caused by the specification of -shared flag which legacy versions of Apple's cctools did not recognise, resulting in an error. grepping the latest bulk build report for pkgsrc on OS X Tiger PowerPC[3] showed that there are many packages effected by the same issue. Alex suggested the best way forward is to look at implementing a transform so that -shared is automatically converted to -dynamiclib -undefined dynamic_lookup by the wrappers so that local patches can be avoided on a package by package basis. Within a few minutes a transform had been put together, it took a little while longer to get it to be utilised due to a mistake by me. I'd made the assignment optional rather than explicit. I've posted the the change for comment on the tech-pkg@ list[4] and a bulk build is in progress to test out the patch. Another issue with databases/lua-tokyocabinet was related to the packing list, on OS X the extension of the generated object is dylib & on other systems is so. This means having to apply some boilerplate logic for dealing with file extensions depending on the OS being built on. I enquired about the best approach for implementing a mechanism to handle this on the tech-pkg@ list[5]. It seems that this should already be taken care of by the infrastructure but at present only applies to files which begin with lib in their name. Thanks to Leonardo Taccari for the pointer offlist. With the difference in file extension for lua modules, Alex raised a point about the usability of such modules with lua, by default Lua searches for files with .so extension in its search path and will ignore other files which prevent from some of these modules from loading. For better integration with host operating system Lua should be set to accomodate the native library extension. % ~/pkg/bin/lua5.3 Lua 5.3.2 Copyright (C) 1994-2015 Lua.org, PUC-Rio > return package.cpath /Users/sme/pkg/lib/lua/5.3/?.so;/Users/sme/pkg/lib/lua/5.3/loadall.so;./?.so Recently some patches related to kqueue landed in the postegresql hackers list[6] which Alex wanted to look at but it turned out that postgresql packages needed to be brought up to date and a partial set of changes were already there in the current latest releases. We wrapped up at this set of yaks to shave. I did not get around to looking at AFL. Need to work on my clumsy workflow in vi. Learnt about make build-env (runs up to build stage & spawns a shell in a chroot of the work directory) and make debug (which prints out environment settings) in pkgsrc. Perhaps another event can be held before EuroBSDCon? (same time in September) [1] https://github.com/shazow/ssh-chat [2] https://pkgsrc.geeklan.co.uk/reports/current/Darwin-8/20160805.2004/icu-57.1/build.log [3] http://mail-index.netbsd.org/pkgsrc-bulk/2016/08/19/msg013054.html [4] http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-pkg/2016/08/20/msg017219.html [5] http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-pkg/2016/08/20/msg017220.html [6] https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CAEepm%3D37oF84-iXDTQ9MrGjENwVGds%2B5zTr38ca73kWR7ez_tA%40mail.gmail.com From henrik at morsing.cc Sun Aug 21 08:41:11 2016 From: henrik at morsing.cc (Henrik Morsing) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 08:41:11 +0100 Subject: [Ukfreebsd] Please unsubscribe me Message-ID: <20160821074111.GG6088@morsing.cc> Hi, I have tried multiple times to unsubscribe from this list but I keep getting the mails. Could the admin please take me off the list. Thanks Henrik Morsing