Rich Wood rich at dynamite.org
Fri Jul 14 18:39:12 BST 2000

On 14 Jul 2000, at 14:11, Helen McCall wrote:

> Some time ago I
> worked out that it was best to consign any mail containing the words
> "beer" and "curry" straight to /dev/null.

Shame about that, as you won't get to read this hand-crafted reply as 
it contains both the words beer and curry.

> I find the general ethos in the freebsd world so embarassing that I do not
> like mentioning the name "Freebsd" to my commercial clients, preferring to
> refer to it as "Berkley UNIX" instead. The ethos as seen by myself and
> other women is that of teenage boys with all the naivity of youth, getting
> drunk on lager, filling up with curry, and then as all women know probably
> being sick on the pavement. The name "FreeBSD" tends to conjure up the
> image of little pools of vomit in the street!

You seem to have a radically different "image" of FreeBSD than anyone 
else I have come across. You appear to be confusing us with Linux. 
However if you wish to keep your (I suspect totally unfounded) view, 
that's fine by me, just don't tar us all with the same brush.

At the Oxford meeting, I was one of the youngest attendees (at a less 
than sprightly 27), the only teenager in attendance was Ben Smithurst 
who would be about 18 (at a guess). As for the vomiting I'd driven 
home by that point, but I doubt there was any drunken vomiting after 
the curry.

> The "Beer and Curry Clique" is alienating a major sector of the Unix/Linux
> world; in the same way that the tedious and irritating "Computer Games
> Cliques" drove so many women away from computing in the early Nineties.
> Even the very professional Debian project tends to put women off with the
> amount of flaming on the developers' lists.

Fine. If you wish the UKUG to do something different, organise it 
yourself. The beer&curry nights are organised by people who enjoy a 
pint or two followed by a curry whilst talking about BSD and anything 
else. If your tastes lie elsewhere YOU have to do something about it. 
We can't read your mind and organise events to suit you if you don't 
tell us what it is you want to do (I think that bit makes sense).

> Please try and make this list more attractive to the older seasoned
> professionals by removing the "Young Lad" image. Please also remember that
> us veterans very rarely ask questions on these kind of lists because the
> kind of queries we see on the lists are the simple little problems which
> we normall solve in a moment due to our enormous wealth of experience;
> which is why those of us old enough to be your mothers or grandmothers can
> offer some very useful advice, even if we do not know the latest slang.

You completely lost it when you came to write this last paragraph, 
you would have done better to omit it.

You ridicule us as a bunch of drunken, vomiting teenagers, when as 
far as I am aware you haven't actually met any of us. Then you finish 
off with this extemely patronising response. 

If you do wish us to repect your "wealth of experience" you had 
better start by treating us as the responsible adults we are, rather 
than the drunken louts you misguidely believe us to be.


rich at dynamite.org                 rich at FreeBSD.org.uk
If that's what they call normal, I'd rather be insane

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